In response:  (I'm frustrated!)
Started the 'in house leash' this afternoon, we'll see how that works (I'm not setting on the leash but same difference)  I'm hoping that the dogs will come to him when they're ready rather than letting him haze them. He's in jail right now but has been sleeping quietly with me at night so I'll let him out as I'm getting ready to crash and see if he'll play the fool or if he'll go to bed.
Edit 11/19:  Went to bed nicely, then at 04:00 he's up terrorizing the other two.  Back to jail so I can get back to sleep.

I have a baby gate set up, I used it for the kittens - when they got comfortable with the dogs they could come out and if they felt threatened they could run back - kittens weren't a major problem but there's too much stuff back there that he could get into (he likes chewing cardboard and I have no problem with empty boxes), believe me I've thought about it!

Walks are always about the same, 100 yards to the back of the property and we'll do that at least twice - with him off lead so he's getting a lot more running in than I am walking - and then around the trailer (80x14) Once after each meal (breakfast / lunch / supper) and normally once in between meals.  
Edit 11/19:  Short walk this morning after breakfast, 35 (feels like 31) 15+ mph winds.  Even with a wool shirt and lined windbreaker it was still cold.  (( No, I really don't have anything that resembles cold weather gear anymore.  Generally Dec - Feb are "cold" and then my windbreaker is good enough ))

I'm apparently useless as a trainer, I can't train a dog to set when he naturally sets when I stop when we're out walking - not necessarily at a 'heal', we'll work on that.  But I've got to get over my frustration before I try any serious training!

I've got a couple of balls and a stuffed kitten ball he was playing with.  I've rolled them past him a few times and he just watched it go past - even if he was playing with it 5 minutes before I tossed it.

Edit 11/19:  Called Chuck to vent.  "Pup's not getting enough exercise."  See note above, maybe not 'enough'.  He'd get more if he'd play with the big dogs rather than getting in their faces and air snapping them.  "Let the dogs work it out." Well, that's one of my lines ... if I could see any sign of them working it out I'd be all for it but I don't.  "Do (I) want to rehome him, I think you'd regret it but ..."  Really, no I don't he's smart as a whip and by himself he'd be a lot of fun.  

@amymeme I've been watching the weather up north and from what I'm seeing you should have gotten some decent snow but nowhere near what Rochester did. I was in Syracuse in '78 when we got 6' over a three day span ... that's when I left to come south.

I hope you all are doing well and keeping warm!!

Nah...a scant half inch at best. To far east of Buffalo and South of Syracuse. These lake effect snow bands are VERY local. Fortunately, we are also to far west and north to get snow from most Nor'easters as well. If we get a dump, it's usually from either an Alberta clipper or a rare storm coming up from the south/southwest inland. Unless it's a rare great, big wallop of a nor'easter that tracks inland or is just plain huge.

How goes things with the puppy?

With the pup pretty good.  If he were in a single (or more accepting) dog house he'd be great.  Essentially house trained, he goes to the door when he wants out ... I still seem to have more puddles than one dog should produce!  We go walking and he's getting better about being under foot - course he's gotten stepped on a few times.  He'll get about 8-12 feet away and then checks to see where dad is.

My pups are still living outside so they don't have to put up with him.  They come in at night, none too happy but then he's on a house leash tied to my chair or in his crate.  He'll gripe about the crate but really settles pretty quickly ( it took a few hours of "If you shut up I'll let you out, if you keep howling (and the boy can howl!) you're in jail for disturbing the peace!" )

I'm at a solid loss, he's doing all the puppy things he's supposed to:  Play bow, lick chops, lay down ... but Avalanche still barks anytime he comes close.  Sky ... she just avoids him (unless he sticks his head in her food bowl at which she'll let him know that's not right!)  (( I feed her and Avalanche on the porch so Zeus goes past their dishes going in or out.  Avalanche had Zeus' whole head in his mouth, no harm done except to Zeus' ego ))

It's not been too terribly long in the grand scheme of things. I'm sure the others will come around. But your predicament definitely reminds me of why I do not typically get puppies and why I was looking at 2 year olds mostly.

If I were to have gone looking, I'm with you. A rescue I can meet a couple of times and decide if it's gonna fit.

If I didn't know Chuck and his dogs I'd not have gone this way ... even though I'd like to have a pup who's less 'friendly'.

Not too long she says ... wanna trade shoes for a week?? It's been a small eternity!!

aljones wrote:

If I were to have gone looking, I'm with you.  A rescue I can meet a couple of times and decide if it's gonna fit.

If I didn't know Chuck and his dogs I'd not have gone this way ... even though I'd like to have a pup who's less 'friendly'.

Not too long she says ... wanna trade shoes for a week??  It's been a small eternity!!

Your curmudgeon is showing

Reminds me ever so much of Josh when he first Archer. Puppies take patience. Your dogs may, and i emphasis the "may" part, be picking up on your frustration with the puppy and the situation and decide outside is a better bet. Sorry of like husband and kids at the height of my PMS

Also - puppy didn't get the full litter mates manners teaching experience so you and the dogs are gonna have to show puppy the boundaries.

I also know we folk pay a certain age become street in our ways and decidedly grumpy when our universe becomes disordered.

May watch that old flick "grumpy old men."

Here's something to keep you going - who knows what grown-up Zeus will be capable of...

https://www.facebook.com/reel/434014872016237?s=yWDuG2&fs=e&mibextid=Nif5oz

I've been slow posting anything because there's been that doubt in the back of my mind whether I was going to keep him or not.  The verdict is primarily "Yes" since he and Avalanche have started getting along better - rather than a constant growl / snap, Avalanche was actively playing with him last night.  Outside this morning we were back to air snaps ("I'm a grouchy old man, leave me alone first thing in the morning!"  and I'm afraid I can relate to that.)

Puppy isn't impressed with the crate but he's in there overnight and for meals.  

We're at that stage where he stops to take a piss with no warning!  Needless to say that isn't making me happy - we go out, he makes a deposit, takes a piss and we come in (after walking some more) and within five minutes I have a puddle!!  Argh!!!

Everyone knows the puppy who answers to "No!" ... Zeus is close to that, but he does know that when I say "no" it's because he's doing something I don't want him doing and stops.  He's getting better.

Sky is still in the "If I ignore him he'll go away!" phase ... sorry girl.

Remember... This, too, will pass

Sounds like routine is starting to be had. Light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe a little at least.

amymeme wrote:

Remember... This, too, will pass

Yeh, I've heard this before but normally there's a small pile at the end of it!

TwisterII wrote:

Sounds like routine is starting to be had. Light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe a little at least.

Since I'm getting cliché's, the last time I heard that one was when I went wandering in Boston's underground (you could get away with that then) and the light at the end of a tunnel was a commuter train heading right toward us!

It's funny, Avalanche come in and it's "grouchy old man time" then puppy keeps irritating him and then they start playing. Sky is still hiding on the couch watching their antics like "Uhuh, you ain't gonna get me in that!!"

Life goes on and the puppy is beginning to understand that there are ramifications for not behaving - things like have a big dog bark in your ear and/or getting put in jail.  I don't use the crate as punishment but there are times he gets crated just so the rest of us have some down time.

The big dogs still aren't overly impressed with him, Avalanche is actively correcting him but after getting bit on the hind legs a dozen times or so, even Avalanche loses his patience.  Sky is still in he "If I ignore him, he'll go away" stance.  She lost her collar yesterday afternoon (snap buckle was open) and she wasn't going to come in ... maybe she was just enjoying her freedom, maybe she was just enjoying being away from him <????>  She came up on the porch a few times but didn't come in till well after dark.  

He's eating and as soon as he gets done, we'll go for a walk ... not too sure how long it'll be, it's cold (to me! local weather says it's 46 - they lie!!)  He's learning how to talk but I'm having a hard time deciding between "I'm hungry", "I need water", and "I want out"  If the water bowl outside the crate - the one they all share - is low, he'll pick it up and scatter whatever is in there - I think that means "I'm thirsty" right???

Is it mean to laugh when a puppy sticks his nose into a cactus to see what it is????

So my cats do the pick up the bowl and scatter it if it's too low. Unfortunately they do this with the water bowl that is close to carpet and tend to get the carpet annoyingly wet. they have a couple gallon gravity waterer which has been a little more effective at curbing this behavior than when it was just a bowl.

Not sure where I'm going with this but have to "talk it out" a little.  Well, maybe more than a little.

Zeus was born on 09/22/22 which makes him a day over 11 weeks old.  I brought him home on Nov 13, not quite a month ago - and that's a month that feels like five.

He's smart, like many smart dogs, maybe too smart for his own  good.  He knows his name and (mostly) responds when I call him.   We go walking and he's either right there (underfoot, gonna trip daddy) or close ... sometimes as much as 15 feet away but not too far. He's figuring out what fetch is all about. Funny thing, though, is that I've seen him - several times - run right over the stick he brought me and I threw, like he can't see/smell it????

The damage the kittens did to my couch he's finished.  There's nothing on the front of the arms anymore, it's in the trash - after being all over the floor.  Well, after being all over and my picking it up.  On the other hand, I have a pair of old sandals that I've given him permission to chew on and he knows that he can chew on them but not the ones I wear ... smart enough there.  Not that I don't have chew toys out the kazoo and they hurt my feet at night when I have to go 'wandering'.  Two big Y shaped Nylabone toys that I got for Avalanche and Sky as well as several toys that I got for him.  But anything he can get his teeth into is fair game, a paperback that was on a side table is now history (I have the ebook so it's no big loss, but still!)

The big dogs are out front which is where they've pretty much stayed for the last few weeks and I have the door open so he's out irritating them - he tries to play but it's coming across as an attack.  Someone sent him inside yiping a few minutes ago and I don't feel bad about that.  Avalanche will play for a while and then tells him that's enough ... but not for a puppy and Avalanche will tell him it's done!  Just went out to see what they were up to and got there just in time to see Avalanche head butt him, not once but twice ... puppy didn't realize that Avalanche was telling him to STOP!

Sky has a Siberian sized hole out there just beyond the edge of the porch ... spends a lot of time in it.  'Course the holes that she and Avalanche are digging are gradually causing the freestanding blocks that are their steps (mostly Sky's) to tumble.  Need to get out there and move about 35 cinder blocks, fill in the holes and restack the blocks ... so they can do it again??  not sure about that, that's part of getting tired.

I probably should get a heavy long sleeve shirt out but typically I don't wear anything more than a T-shirt (okay, pants and sandals, too, sheesh!) After a few "Yikes!" and "No's" he's really pretty good about using his teeth on me unless he's excited. His puppy claws, on the other hand, are so sharp that my arms look like I've been "self harming" with a razor! I can't convince him that pawing at me for attention isn't going to get him the attention he wants - this is one of the few times I react with a slap or just push him down. How about, Please don't hurt the man who feeds ya!

There's more to this but not right now......

Al - you need these! As long as I wear these, I don't get the slice and dice on my arms. The scars on my forearms are legendary. I look like a "cutter" except cutters usually cut the undersides of their forearms.

https://www.amazon.com/Evridwear-Resistant-Resitant-Protective-Abrasion/dp/B07QL39H8F/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa

I'm going to update this as the day goes on ... all times approximate

0730: Avalanche did his normal Butt his nose into my face to tell me it's time to get up.  Not hard, just enough to let me know.  Stood there waiting to get his morning scratch till I got up. Filled up the water bowl, Avalanche drank and went out.  Sky was in her open crate - not interested in getting up.
Zeus also wanted out of the crate, so I let him out and he immediately went around the couch to aggravate Sky.  Called him a couple of times, he got some water and went out to aggravate Avalanche who wasn't having any of it.

0800: Called Zeus back in but he wanted to play.  Finally brought him in and fed him.  2 cups and he ate about 1/2 of it and wanted back out (( hopefully to 'take care of business' )) aggravated Avalanche till A wanted back in.  Zeus came back in at the same time, started going between big dogs wanting to play and eventually, about 0900, got put in jail after they both told him repeatedly that they didn't want to play!

Note:  One of things that really bugs me is that to have any peace in the house - when all three are inside - is that I need to crate Zeus.  That's not fair to him but leaving him loose is going to drive the other three residents nuts (that's two big dogs and me, if you were wondering.)  
Sky's crate is no longer her safe place, when things get rowdy she goes in her crate but Zeus invades her space after having been told several times to get out of her crate (by both Sky and me!)
As they were drinking this AM I kept watching to see if I could catch him dumping the water bowl - of course he didn't play that game this morning.  While they have a 3 gallon jug for water outside, the water in the house is always fresher and when they dump it, it gets more fresh water.  I've tried to figure out what his 'thing' was with dumping that bowl.  It's metal with a reflective bottom so I figure he might be seeing this 'other dog' and changed this bowl out for a plastic one - which he immediately dumped.  Changed it to a blue bowl with a flatter bottom and he dumped that, too.  Think like a puppy is getting me nowhere on this!

1300: This hasn't been a bad day so far.  'round 'bout 11:00 the big dogs both wanted out, so they went out and Zeus was reprieved.  Other than a few trips outside (and one mess in the kitchen by a door we don't use!) he's been at my feet, sleeping peacefully - gathering energy for when Avalanche and Sky come back in ...

1500:  Went out for a longish walk, gotta teach this guy not to pull when we're working on "heel" - actually have to work on not pulling period!  I have two harness' one that's small and might fit him and another that Sky came in so it's a bit bigger.  Gotta look up training with a harness, then might use one of them.
Something I haven't mentioned, he like to chew on sticks and rocks!  The sticks I can understand, sorta but rocks??? Nope, make no sense to me.  He also likes charcoal, I have a broken bag so have loose charcoal - he'll get a piece and chew it like it was a treat!  He'll also pick up a stick and carry it around with him, no harm in that as long as he doesn't trip. Think like a puppy ... yeh, but I've never seen a puppy eat charcoal before.

1600:  Avalanche asked to come in, the wind was getting to him I guess.  He and Zeus spent the next hour 'playing' ... I heard plenty of growls / barks from Avalanche but no yipes from Zeus so I guess it was play.  Zeus, from time to time, came over and lay down before going back at it.  

1730:  Chow time!  Big dogs on the porch and Zeus in his crate.  He's now telling me he wants out.  
Well, later turned into Sunday morning and a new message.

---

@amymeme, I've looked at those sleeves and you're probably right but I seldom wear a shirt and thinking about putting those on when needed<???> just doesn't fit my bill.

Archer used to drive me bonkers with the water bowl he just liked to dig in it and splash everywhere.

Maybe you could set up a crate time schedule for Zeus with internals is free time that becomes predictable for him. And every month or so reduce the crate time by 10 minutes or so.

Sounds like the going dog is letting ALL the old dog's on their toes

amymeme wrote:

Archer used to drive me bonkers with the water bowl he just liked to dig in it and splash everywhere.

I don't think I'd mind the 'splash' as much as I mind him dumping a full bowl! The rug in front of the door, under the water bowl is beyond recovery. The door has been open a few times when it's rained (I've often left the door open when I take a run to the mailboxes or store) and it's been here since before I moved in ... about 12 years ago. Maybe it's time for a replacement ... after I have all my dogs trained (yeh, right!)

amymeme wrote:

Maybe you could set up a crate time schedule for Zeus with internals is free time that becomes predictable for him. And every month or so reduce the crate time by 10 minutes or so.

I really don't like crates. Sky uses hers mostly for her escape - not working well right now - and he place to go to chill. I don't have much of a choice with Zeus. Thankfully he doesn't put up much of a hassle when I tell him 'crate' (he's beginning to understand what that means) even if he does raise a royal verbal ruckus when I go out of sight ... and that puppy can be loud when he wants to be, though he's generally as quiet as my other two.

amymeme wrote:

Sounds like the going dog is letting ALL the old dog's on their toes

We can't be on our toes when we're all as tired as we are ... he is getting on our last nerves.

I like the YouTube videos on puppy training. They all seem to start with "Get the puppy tired" This has to be some sort of inside joke, we've been out playing fetch for a half hour and he still picks on Avalanche when he comes in. The only time I've seem him just lay around is when the other two are outside and he can lay at my feet ... like now.

aljones wrote:

amymeme wrote:

Archer used to drive me bonkers with the water bowl he just liked to dig in it and splash everywhere.

amymeme wrote:

Maybe you could set up a crate time schedule for Zeus with internals is free time that becomes predictable for him. And every month or so reduce the crate time by 10 minutes or so.

I really don't like crates.  Sky uses hers mostly for her escape - not working well right now - and he place to go to chill.  I don't have much of a choice with Zeus.  Thankfully he doesn't put up much of a hassle when I tell him 'crate' (he's beginning to understand what that means) even if he does raise a royal verbal ruckus when I go out of sight ... and that puppy can be loud when he wants to be, though he's generally as quiet as my other two.

The crate was instrumental in getting Z'ev socialized to the house and other dogs. Ditto for Archer when he was a pup. Not a permanent thing, a temporary management issue.

Oh? And after and the "splash?" He did that until the water was completely dispersed over the floor

Some very smart dogs can still be a little dense about some things. My experience with GSDs are that they are slow to mature and that ditzy phase can be a hurdle for a while longer than it would be for some other breeds, though they all seem to eventually grow up and lessons start sinking in.

I'm guessing that it's time for a follow up.  The little monster has gotten better, though I think us bigger folks still thinks he's a little monster.

Walks - off leash - are easier, he wanders a little more - to be expected - but comes when I tell him to, well about 75% of the time anyway.  The rest of the time he's too busy being a puppy - "what's this?!?"

Eating rocks - I have no idea where that comes from - isn't as big a problem.  He understands "drop it" and is pretty good about dropping things I'd rather he didn't try to eat.

He's still spending more time in his crate than I'm happy with, but when they're all inside he'll eventually reach a point where Avalanche will tell him to behave and shortly after that he ends up in his crate just for sanity's sake.  Overnight is okay, when I crash and the light go out he's normally ready for sleep (now that's one part of puppy-hood I do appreciate!)  While I'm stressing the time frame, he does well at about 9 hours - but he *is* ready to get out after I get up and let the other two out.

I'm really glad that he doesn't wander cause getting a leash on that squirmy bundle of teeth isn't too easy.  "Just give him time to calm down."  Yeh, they haven't had to deal with this monster.  If I'm lucky, he'll calm down by the time he's 3 or 4 YEARS old!!

I need to get a picture or two of him and since he's off leash (meaning my hands are free) it shouldn't be hard, right?  Trying to get him in the viewfinder is a bad joke ... "Where'd he go?"  Anywhere from right under foot to over giving Avalanche a hard time to trying to convince Sky to play (and she's still in the "If I ignore him, he'll go away." phase.) which isn't working well, she just doesn't want to play with him (too rough???)

We've been out and back in this morning, he's in his crate with what's left of his breakfast.  He's not impressed with the "Purina One Plus for large breed puppies" he'd rather eat the big dogs food so I'm getting some Fromm Large Breed Puppy food (on it's way) and see if he'll eat that any better.  I've already cut him back from three one cup feedings a day (the midday meal just sat there, nibble food) to two cups twice a day and I'm getting ready to cup breakfast back to a cup.  He's still growing like a weed, my guess is that he's somewhere in the 20 pound range but trying to get him on a scale (remember, squirmy monster) isn't an easy chore.

And .... he's telling me he wants out of the crate so that means another trip outside and at 30f this AM it's been chilly.  ((  Though I did find an old fatigue jacket that works better than my windbreaker. ))

One last comment ... This puppy hasn't been afraid of anything!! The neighbors dogs (Darryl, 'across the road') howl a good morning when we go out and the other neighbors (say 1/2 mile behind the trailer) are always barking at something ... he expresses interest but no concern or fear, however, on our last walk out last night, full dark, he saw/heard something that sent him back to the house with no hesitation! Now I'm wondering what was out there, no obvious tracks of anything this morning.

I got the camera out this morning to see if I could get a picture of Avalanche and Zeus 'fighting' and of course every time I opened the door they stopped and came up to see what I was on about.

I commented before that Sasha always ran around with her nose up Sky's tochus and that plus the constant leaking has led me to believe that she has 'a problem' but from what I've read the only solution is invasive and I have problems with putting a dog under (sedation) after they've hit the ten year mark.

On that note, Zeus is taking up for Sasha and Sky told him earlier that she'd had just about enough of that! She's told him a time or two before but this morning she was rather insistent that he should just leave well enough alone.

If he doesn't get the hint then eventually the hint has to become a little more blunt and he will likely deserve what's coming. Kye puts up with so much from kenzi. The dog is a serious saint but ever so often he has to let her know he's done and that seems to at least be a language she does understand because ignoring her definitely isn't one.

Mine all have that point eventually with each other. Once every few years shadow will stand up to spider and he snaps at splinter sometimes over licking his teeth and the corners of his mouth.

All my gsds and my lab/shepherd went through a dumb as a rock phase as puppies. My girls never did that and splinter is a few crayons short of a crayon box. My mastiffs and leonberger went through a really stupid phase until they were about 3 my ridgeback was a typical hound.

Now that i think about it spider has a scar on her face from not getting the point as a puppy. Shadow did it, shes ok but she has always understood Shadow since.